"Emerging church" has been a buzzphrase in the church for some time now. If you're interested, there's an interview between Mark Driscoll and Hank Hanegraff (The Bible Answer Man) on the topic. He gives a brief outline of the varying types of postmodern church around today, and why some postmodern "gurus" may need to be treated with caution...
Mind you, all "gurus" need to be tested against what the bible says, don't they?
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9 comments:
I only came across this term in the last few months - obviously my head's been in the sand!
Speaking of which, I don't actually know what the "emerging church" refers to...
the 'emergent' church thing has been around for at least the last decade or so hasn't it? Although it obviously hasn't really impacted 'mainstream' Sydney for obvious reasons- I know DA Carson wrote a book on it. It is so 'mixed' that all of its manifestations would be different and it would be difficult to pigeon hole all of it apart from those that espouse the obvious heresies!
Prue...if you go to wikipedia it may give you a brief example of the movement.
I listened to the interview..the thing is Mark Driscoll also gives me the 'heebeegeebee's' even though he has recently been very very very popular in Sydney and everyone is lapping him up. To me it isn't 'what he says' as much as 'how he says things and goes about things'. This is the problem with Intellectualised evangelicalism as it manifests itself in the western world, people embrace 'gurus' usually by what they say, not how the say or how they act. If they say 'reformed things' than they pass the 'test'- that is what is scary to me about someone like Mark Driscoll...of course time will tell in regards to 'guru's' like him. My comfort is only knowing that God is ultimately sovereign...
I noticed to that engage is bring out another youngish mega church guru next year as well from the US...
Good on you for keeping up the blogging...sorry I don't always look as much...
Love,
Irene xx
There's a spectrum of "emerging" or "emergent" church models. At one end of the spectrum, the movement seeks to find new ways of "doing Church" in a postmodern context while retaining core evangelical theology. At the other end of the spectrum, the movement is postmodern first, christian second. That is, they change their theology, churchmanship, ways of understanding the world based on a postmodern world view. In some places this results in a more pagan church that syncretises wiccan/spiritualist practices. Some leaders of the emerging movement have been heavily influenced by buddhist thinkers, and so the "spirituality" they espouse looks less and less Christian over time.
Irene, have you listened to Mark Driscoll's sermons? Which of these has given you this impression of him?
- Kris
M. Driscoll- I began listening to one when he first started being 'talked' about to see what he was like- I stopped listening half way through as I found him really really 'crude'- not in a good way. For me to stop listening to a sermon it would have to be something that really made me feel 'sick'- my issue with him isn't what he says per se
I listened to his address to the Sydney minister's thing all the way through- but they aren't sermons.
I have read some of the stuff he has spoken of...
My problem with him isn't 'what he says' it is 'how he says it'- he can be very crass and rude and I don't thing that is the same as 'fighting for the truth'
The thing is I know other people like me that have had the same reaction but because some of them (not all)may be older people their critical comments would be dismissed, but he really is someone who gives me the 'heebeejeebee's!'
The thing is in the Sydney context people are measured as orthodox strictly by 'what they say' and whether they are 'saying all the right things in regards to the fundamentals'- 'how they say things, their actions' - I mean you can say all the 'right things theologically' but your actions need to be godly too-how you address others, comment about others and all that...
He is someone that I think 'time will tell...' and I am of the position, if they aren't against you they are for you, and I will let God be sovereign over all...
Emergent...'Emerging'....... one is 'orthodox' and the 'other' not!!! When were the terms invented or begun to be used to describe which and by whom...I think that would be interesting to find out
I
The original term was "emerging", and referred to the trend of "postmodernising" churches and church plants. The term "emergent", as far as I can gather, was used by Driscoll himself to distance his church and other "reformed" postmodern churches from what he termed the liberal "emerging" churches.
I can understand how some see him as crass, but then calling people a "brood of vipers" or "whitewashed tombs" would not have gone down too easily, either. ;) But you are right. The long term fruit of his ministry will show where he has stood. Leaders will be judged more harshly than others, so we would do well to think carefully before we rashly speak. :)
That doesn't surprised me that Driscoll coined the term...makes sense!
Sorry if I sounded 'rash'- I have been thinking for a while about all this... I usually don't come to my conclusions 'lightly' though... so sorry again if I sounded very rash.
It isn't the 'brood of vipers' thing that I find offensive...
You are right...I am aware that leaders will be judged the most. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't criticise as fellow believers- heresies in the churches history really came about when people just intellectulised theology in itself...
My problem with the Driscoll phenomenon is that if I judged him solely by my intellect I wouldn't have a problem with the 'correctness' of his fundamentals doctrinally...my problem is that there is something that underlies his way of saying and doing things that doesn't sit well...
He is 'youngish' so time will tell with him... what happens.
These are just my thoughts...and I am just being 'bold' on your site- far bolder than I usually am in public!!!!
I
Sorry Irene - I wasn't accusing you of being rash! What I was trying to say was that as leaders, we need to be careful before we speak rashly, and this includes Driscoll. With a church of thousands, he faces a far heavier burden of judgement than we do. It's worth praying for him that the Holy Spirit will convict him where it is needed.
Yes...I totally agree with you!
See you soon...I am looking forward to seeing you...the last time I saw you you were heavily pregnant with Sophie!!!!
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